Conversation with James Greene Jr., Author of This Music Leaves Stains

the bookJames Greene Jr. is the author of This Music Leaves Stains The Complete Story of the Misfits. He's an articulate guy and a good writer. I recommend his book highly.

James interviewed me for the book. I found his work to be very engaging, and I was intrigued by his interest in The Misfits. This led me to ask him some questions.

 The Interview

J.R.: 
Tell me a bit about the interplay of social, cultural and interpersonal forces you think contributed to the band's formation. What kind of phenomenon is the Misfits?

James:  
I think like a lot of U.S. punk rock the Misfits were driven mostly by suburban complacency and fear of homogenization, both artistically and socially. By the late 1970s Vietnam was over, Watergate was over; what was there to protest?

The Starland Vocal Band, The Eagles, ending up like your parents. I mean, every generation of kids has that moment where they want to break away from family and society and be a part of something they can call their own. I think being from northeastern New Jersey also really informs who the Misfits became. To some extent, everything surrounding New York City lives in its shadow---I know having grown up in western Connecticut. New York seeps in whether you want it to or not. And of course it does, it's the nearest international epicenter. So the Misfits fit in with the New York punks, they had style and motif, their music has dramatic flair and counts many of the same influences, but being from Jersey they never had the Manhattan bend you catch with Voidoids or Television or the Ramones. Misfits material is at its core unmistakably garage, because they were in fact a bunch of guys in a neighborhood garage; the sound is not as experimental or "from a loft" as Blank Generation or the first Ramones album---which in this day and age is the only Ramones album that retains a kind of hyper-urban arty outsider vibe.

I see the same thing with Yo La Tengo. They're from Hoboken, and even though you can feel their music as a part of New York, it makes total sense in New York, it doesn't have quite the same energy and makeup as Sonic Youth, who lived in Manhattan. Different chunks in the same cauldron of stew.

Another thing, being out in Jersey---Glenn and Jerry were some of the first and only punks in their town, and often out of necessity they had to play with people who didn't get what they were trying to do. That helped give the music a lot of interesting accents and flavors, but it also threw up speed bumps for them in terms of breaking out of Lodi. I remember being very surprised when I spoke to Frank LiCata for my book...Frank of course plays guitar on all the Static Age stuff, and he finds a great rhythm and feel and mood for all those songs...I was surprised when he said he quit the Misfits because he couldn't see any potential. Whatever Glenn was trying to tell him about the road ahead, he couldn't comprehend it. It's tough to get people on the same page artistically, even when things seem to be working. Which is obvious based on the number of ex-Misfits who populate our life today. But Glenn and Jerry had the drive, they wanted the Misfits to succeed come hell or high water, because it beat the alternatives even at its most discouraging.

I think the reason it became a legitimate phenomenon is due to a combination of that relentless drive and the enormous strength of their material. The songs are just so powerful, jumping off the media they're glued to, and Glenn and Jerry knew it so they went out there and got 'em into people's hands. The stark and memorable imagery doesn't hurt but I really had no idea what the Misfits looked like the first time I heard them. I just knew I could fall into this boldly melodic swirling dark mass forever.

J.R.:
There were many in the Hardcore Punk scene who thought the Misfits were not truly a Punk band, that they were lacking the social commentary and consciousness that was so overtly present in the genre. Do you believe the Misfits fit into the Punk category, or would you offer a different description?

James:
Outlining what is and isn't punk is a fairly subjective exercise. Everyone has their own criteria. My feeling is of course the Misfits are punk, in terms of sonics and structure and basic approach. I would say they make social and political commentary but not in a literal way. It's not black and white stuff but it's definitely there if you wanna see it. That could apply to the song composition as well. It's not as methodical as other bands. That said, I can see how people might view them as a rock band who dabbled in punk for some of the same reasons. You could make that argument about a lot of groups.

J.R.:
Most of the well known bands of that era (and earlier) had a message and an image that was fairly easy to understand. I think the Misfits were somewhat difficult to comprehend, even when taken at face value. I always got the impression that people looked at them and said "Ok, horror movies, now what?", but there was a statement they were making, or were being, that was a result of social forces, a result that was the underbelly of society. It seemed to be about seeing the world's events and society's conditions differently...

James:
Yeah, you're absolutely right. They were being the statement to a degree, like, "Look at what's happened to us. Look what your world has done."

J.R.:
That's a common and powerful claim among the marginalized. Makes me want to bust out into some Melanie Safka. but that's just too damn melancholy. Maybe that's the point, being The Monster among the sheeple. Those 1930's horror movies were really anything but scary to a world at war. By the '50's, the remakes, Hammer films, were acknowledging that these were good characters with good stories, and trying to revive them with some modern intensity. Those films didn't succeed in changing the perception of monster movies as something one should outgrow over time. Could this be at the pith of the reason they were never as popular as other punk bands?

James:
I definitely feel like the intensity of the Misfits has prevented them from reaching the level of other punk bands in terms of renown. The Ramones were intense but they also had these absurdist elements that twisted everything to seem like a joke. So, they do a song about Texas Chainsaw Massacre and it seems like fun, a lark. And, you know, murder and death is only a tiny percentage of Ramones subject matter, whereas with the Misfits its a majority shareholder. Though I do feel like the sonics of the stuff has more to do with the Misfits not getting over. They recorded so much of their stuff on a shoestring budget and though the performances are amazing and the songs well arranged the quality just isn't on the same level as the Ramones albums or Never Mind The Bollocks or the Clash. And later on Danzig had a whole career in that league...I've met lots of people who really can't handle lower quality audio stuff, and they're kinda like, "Why would I waste my time with the Misfits when there are all these Danzig albums?"

J.R.:
I remember that it was impossible for us to find engineers who knew how to record and mix our music. In those days, only a few producers and engineers could do make good Punk records-and they were with the major labels. My most outstanding memory is of 2 guys in the control room constantly complaining about the high levels-truly ridiculous whining by today's standards.

Why write about the Misfits? What are some of the important lessons to be had from their story? I'm very interested in what they represent to people who are not from this local area ( the average people around town were pretty oblivious to the whole thing. Some knew the band members from school as people who dressed funny and were into weird shit, that's all).

James:
You know, I really can't believe someone didn't write a book about the Misfits before I did. They have such a fascinating narrative and their art has dented our culture in so many ways. To me they represent a catharsis, a relief that comes with exploring your darker side. Lots of people push away evil or deranged thoughts, but the Misfits let you explore in a very romantic way what those kinds of things can mean. Sometimes it's nothing. Other times it's revelatory. Either way it's exciting. On a more literal level they represent exactly what you want a punk band to be: post-apocalyptic leather-clad doom soaked rock n' roll. You couldn't dream up a more satisfying group with a skull for a logo and a box set that's a coffin. Thick, fuzzy guitars and a thick, luxurious voice anchoring it all.

I think the most important lessons to be taken from the Misfits are hard work will always pay off and people will catch up to you eventually. These guys went their own way doing this thing. It wasn't always easy (not even their contemporaries could always figure out what they were going for), but they've got something very special to show for it now. A legacy, a legend.

J.R.:
Do the Misfits have a big following in Japan? I know of the band Balzac, but I don't know about the Misfits following over there.

James:
It seems like the Misfits have made some cultural penetration in Japan. I certainly saw my share of Crimson Ghost t-shirts as well as other Misfits-related paraphernalia around Tokyo. Yet I can't say for sure if they're a major influence or sonic presence. You know, it seems like the Sex Pistols, the Clash, and the Ramones are the groups who got a major foothold there...back in the day, at least. In my research this year so far concerning native Japanese punk the Misfits haven't really come up. But I'm still learning.

J.R.:
You know, I seriously think that music icons are meant to trigger religious fervor among fans. Idolatry and music are ancient partners. Cave paintings are often in the most sonically resonant spaces.

Do you think that Misfits music inspires veneration of dark forces and energies? I've often thought that their fans are participating in rituals that glorify the yin energy, the Shiva, if you will.

James:
I think people can pull dark forces from any kind of art if that's what they choose to do. Allegedly a human being can't be hypnotized unless she or he believes and accepts that hypnotism is real and they want to experience it. Art works the same way, I feel. If you want to see the good in something, you will, or vice versa. People definitely use art as a substitute for religion, creating their own ceremonies and rituals and what have you. But I think that can also be seen as a form of catharsis, like cranking up the stereo on a long drive, a therapy of sorts. I guess I think it all depends on what kind of person you are and how you divide and draw in your energies.

J.R.:
The mind of the perceiver forms the perception. Perhaps the phenomenon is just as much about having a private sphere as it is about the quality of the energies experienced. For example, I've always listened to The Stranglers. Their music remains for me a very nearly private experience, untainted by the larger world. Maybe Misfits fans feel that kind of thing, perhaps that is a factor in the band's relatively limited market share. How do you like that? I've come up with a metaphysical explanation for poor sales...I'm obviously not a business executive.

But really, it may very well be that, although any commercially released song can engender personal feelings and memories, there's something that can be more closely held in Misfits music...for a lifetime.

James:
Yes. It's very difficult to market a feeling and you definitely have to be a certain kind of person to find what the Misfits do inviting. Despite the catchy melodies and fun throttle there's something introverted and club-like about the whole thing...

J.R.:
Have you any thoughts about the reunion? I've been watching some of the video and I've never seen them look so happy. Seems to me they couldn't have enjoyed such a peak without the long, seemingly endless valley of separation. In other words, they never wore out their welcome. Even I'm touched by this business move, arranged by lawyers. It's like, who cares? it's something everyone wanted to see.

James: I'm pleasantly surprised by what I've seen and heard. They played everything at the perfect tempo and with perfect fervor, and yeah, they did all seem to be having a great time. My only complaint (aside from the fact the drummer was never in the Misfits) is that this thing had to happen at a festival. The Misfits in their glory days were a club band. Wish they had done the first show at Irving Plaza or something like that. Or a graveyard.

I feel like this had to happen at some point, regardless of how. Everyone goes back to the well eventually. And yeah, they weren't together for all that long to begin with...it seems like maybe they built up each other's evils in their minds over the years and now they reform and realize, "Well, this other person isn't like that at all." Or maybe they're just estatic they figured out a way to settle the lawsuits without spending any of their own monies.

J.R.:
I'm not one for reductionism, but *if* you wanted to leave a single message about the phenomenon of the Misfits, their value, that which they state for people, what would it be? Or at least, what would one possible version be?

James:
Oh man, I don't know if I can whittle it down. I think I would say something like: The Misfits are escape, catharsis, a secret language in plain sight, something emboldening, proof that fire can be anywhere and anything.